In North Carolina, removal of old and non-functioning dams from rivers and waterways is a growing trend. Many small dams that once provided water power to turn grist mills or saw blades now serve no useful function but block migratory fish from their historic spawning and nursery areas. The removal of obsolete dams on the Cape Fear River in North Carolina could improve recreational and commercial fisheries for striped bass, American shad, hickory shad, and help tremendously in restoration efforts for river herring, Atlantic sturgeon and shortnose sturgeon.  If recovery of these fish populations happenes as predicted, recreational and commercial fisheries for these fish would improve. Coastal marine fisheries would benefit also because juvenile shad and herring spawned in freshwaters migrate downstream to the ocean and provide an important prey base for other popular fish species, such as red drum, flounder, bluefish and seatrout. 

The combined effects of increased shad and striped bass populations along with the benefits of an increase forage base for other game fish could potentially generate millions of dollars annually to North Carolina's economy.  The benefits of restoring healthy fish populations go far beyond the enjoyment of just catching a fish.  They extend to our economy, to our culture and to our dedication to conserving our heritage of natural resources.

Nemo was swimming along when he ran head first into a concrete wall.   Damn!    (I know, it's late)

This makes me think of the question that was posed on the "Oh Deer" thread:  Why are hunters badmouthing environmentalists?

Here is another example of the kind of bizarre, Orwellian doublethink that is so monumentally rife within the modern environmental movement.  So much is made of the price of gas and the need for cleaner energy.  Now, here, it is not the environmentalists but rather their opponants who insist that they will not give up this cheap, clean, replenishable source of energy.

For every dam that is blown up, if the resulting rise in energy costs, contamination, and taxing of environmental resources turns out to be as extreme as I suspect it will, the very same environmentalists who proposed the destruction of the dam will -- mark my words -- be out in force blaming everyone but themselves for the new problems they have created.

If it doesn't happen, great!  But don't bet the rent on it.

Hmmm, not much to say on this one.  If the dam is obsolete and no longer serving a purpose, why not remove it and see what happens?  If the dam is old and in poor condition but provides cheap power and flood control, why not replace it?  Say the dam was built in the 30's, with 70 years of service I think the government and tax payers got their moneys worth and its time to replace it with one that will be more efficient and last longer.

*shoulder shrug* It seems like they just need to evaluate the dams on a case by case basis and take a long hard look at the community needs, environmental impact, and the long term safety of those living down stream.  Our town is run by 2 Hydro electric dams on the small Logan River that runs through a nearby canyon.  They are regularly maintained and actually have provided two wonderful small resevoirs where fish have flourished and fishermen love to go.  It seems to be working for us.

(warning, sophomoric / un pc comment below, not suitable for young children) 

What about the huge catfish swimming around in the deep cold water at the base of the dams?

 Ecology is not static. Sure, one can mess up the ecology of a place, but another ecology evolves and every time some factor changes, so does the ecology. Ask any glasses wearer and they can tell you, not all change is bad.  We aren't talking about dams that sprang up over night are we? Other than beaver dams, which mess up the ecology of streams, too, only since the beavers have a better lobby and pr crowd than the electric company, nobody much complains.

 Heck, how much do you think the beavers paid to have a slang anatomical term named after them? 

DPR, this topic makes me think of the deer day as well...but not quite from the same perspective.  Like the deer, the proliferation of dams came from our thinking we knew best and could master the environment.  The problem was that we didn't quite see the whole picture.  When I was in my teens and not well disposed to hear it, a wise man told me to consider the irrevocability of my actions.  What a tough thing to hear.  Certainly not something the Army Corps of Engineers was used to hearing when they started building dams everywhere.  Now we're stuck with the unintended consequences.

Dams here are slated for demolition to restore the fish population...because we now believe we need to be eating more fish (at least this year)

I'm of two minds about this.  Hetchy Hetchy gives San Francisco some of the best drinking water in the state but other dams here are messing with the wild salmon in a big way.  It would be nice to say that we should wait until we're in possession of all the facts before we act but then I'm guessing that the Army Corps thought they were on top of the situation in the '30s when they started out on their crusade to dam every river.

Bottom line...I think this is a really sticky question and will probably distract me for the rest of the day...while I should be working.  I can't wait to see what the rest of us have to say.

This reminds me of a scene from the comedy "Young Einstein", where Albert's father says, 'you know what I want you to do to this valley?  DAMMIT!'

One of our major power companies is just completing removal of a dam that had been in service for 100 years.  This was a multi-year process, and addressed safety of the surrounding land and health of the river that had been dammed.  They were very open in discussing the options, and fully described the process and involved those directly and indirectly with the changes all of the way.  We knew there would be a lot of "stuff" in the bottom of the lake behind the dam, for example, and even saw pix of the old lawn chairs and detritus that had accumulated over the years.

Restoration of salmon runs was among the desired outcomes, and clearly this relatively small dam was in no way serving as any major source of power - we depend on many dams on the huge Columbia River and the Bonneville system for power - plus this same company has many new windmills generating power.  Customers in the grid are also installing solar options and sending excess powerback into the grid.

One action won't save the planet, but careful assessment of the dams and their purposes and their current conditions can be a part of the myriad options needed to power the world in the future.

Honest open discussion and clear statement of the benefits to the various groups that need/use power are essential - and we often forget that part.  

Nachista, tajar, and belle pretty much covered what I had to say. Somebody check Robert's temperature, give him a nice cool drink, and a 'there, there, dear-it'll be all right'. LOL

or

Akron, cold beer, and 'poor poor thing'.

Wish I could get the carriage return on this thing to single-space...

"There are eight million stories in the Naked City and this is one of them". Each story, or in this case, each damn, should be objectively evaluated by a wide variety of subject matter experts who are committed to a common goal of deciding what the desired long-term and short term desired outcome shall be in view of the "big picture impact" that may occur as a result of their decisions and actions.

The lack of having any omniscient, omnipotent "Renaissance Man" types available, I fear there are very few dilemmas in this age that lend themselves to be either categorized or solved by the use of broad brush stroke thinking and/or solutions.

I do like the example that belleball presented to us. It did not disparage nor fault any group involved in the effort of finding the best possible solution and it recognized that each faction; the industrialists, ecologists, environmentalists and the citizens of the community all brought something of value to the party.

I meant each "dam", not "damn"; damn it!

and I'm sorry about being redundant with the word "desired" but I guess thats not such a bad word to be redundant with.

can't believe I ended a sentence with "with". Arrrrrrrgh!

Don't you know you can end a sentence with anything you like because its like the internet, and junk?

I know where I would like to place a dam right now, and it is in a co-worker's mouth and not a river.  Some people are just naturally loud but this one takes the cake.  We can hear her outside the building before the door is even open.  *sigh* C'est la vie.

My answer to the poll question would be "all of the above"

So I live in Louisville.  If it weren't for the locks and dam here on the Ohio, all the barge traffic that goes up and down would have to ford around the rapids that are formed here, especially at this time of the year.  So one cannot paint the whole dam(n) picture with a broad paint brush.  In fact, the reason that there IS a Louisville is because of the so-called "falls" here, actually, they are more rapids.  And there are more locks and dams up and down the river, allowing a deeper channel for those barges to traverse.  To put in a plug, you can get a clearer picture of the historical use of the diverse ecology of this area by going to www.butlerbooks.com and clicking on Unearthing the Past, the Archaeology of the Falls of the Ohio River, by my husband, Don Janzen.  Pretty low and tacky plug, eh?  But then, why not.  We are all friends here, aren't we?

Since Katrina, I have wondered about not only unnecessary dams, but levees.  N'Orleans is built below sea level in certain areas.  Hurricanes come along with some degree of frequency.  Isn't that just asking for trouble?  What would one expect?  But then, I am not a N'Orleans resident...

Willie Trask:  "... now and forever shall be, world without end..."  but alas, the ecosystem does indeed change.  The paper reported with alarm today about a glacier that has broken off in the arctic!  The article reported that it was some 9,000 years old... ONLY 9,000 years old. So...the ecology was different in that neck of the woods some 10,000 years ago and H. sapiens were definitely here in the new world then as well.  Also, good point about beavers.  They will build dams wherever they want even without a Corps of Engineers permit.  And aren't they "nature", working to keep things in balance?  There is definitely NOT a simple knee-jerk answer to any of these sorts of questions.  If other species can work to make their living conditions better, why can't we, as long as we also use that advantage we have called "rational thought".

In a way I think I'm more in agreement with Belleball on this issue.  Just going through & showing the communities what the options are before just blasting away old dams is a fair enough way to come to an agreeable outcoem to the majority.

Although I happen to love along a river & papermills & for the past 5 years the papermills have been paying to clean up the mess thier businesses have made over the past almost 95 yrs into the river.  Which has brought up another enviromental debate which is where to depose of this contaminated sediment that knwo has been dredged?  

I have no idea what the answer is... although I guess really neither does anyone else...

Actually, the beavers don't give a dam about keeping nature in balance.  They build for their own sakes and to not consider the ecological complexities.  Like the writing of books and the making of Peterman clothes, conversations like this are peculiar to humans.

Olivia,

I'm actually enjoying a cool drink right now but I thank you for your concern.  If you hadn't mentioned Down and Out in Paris and London yesterday, I might not have Orwell on the brain so much today but I haven't been able to shake him.  On that note, thinking in terms of today's comments (including my own), I leave you with one of my favorite of his quotes:

"Donkeys live a long time.  None of you have ever seen a dead donkey."

Whenever I get all twisted up in the back and forth arguments about what is best for the environment and all of it's inhabitants, including those pesky and industrious little beavers who always seem to have a pla;n . . . . that as the day drifts to a close and I surrender my need to be right; it reoccurs to me that "the best laid plans of mice and men" are always, ultimately, at the mercy of the Queen of Caos, the one and only "Mother Nature".

If she sneezes, parts of the world get pneumonia. If she scratches, mountains and cities fall. If she gets dehydrated, crops wither, forests burn and people starve. If she over-hydrates, levees and damns burst, rivers overflow, and cities are washed away. If she gets too hot, volcanoes erupt, too cold . . . . well, you get the idea. I don't really think that Mother Nature has a plan or operates by any set of rules. I'd bet that she probably finds even the very best of our efforts as being amusing.

In the end, all we can do is our best to scratch out a place for us to dwell and apply temporary patches and fixes to suite our needs and hope they last for awhile while not screwing thing up somewhere else down the line.

We are, after all, just her guests and should mind our manners and respect our hostess.

Peter,

Please be careful, my friend.  The last man I knew who, upon evening's end, surrendered his need to be right woke up the next morning to find himself dead.  It seems that, on the way to bed, he mistook a tiger for his mother-in-law.  Having surrendered his need to be right, he felt no inclination to correct the error and proceeded to embrace the tiger.

There is a crucial difference between the need to be right and the need to convince others of said condition.  You will find this to be the case regardless of the topic to which it applies.

I would, without a moment's pause nor any regret, prefer to embrace the tiger rather than my ex-mother-in-law.  But thanks for the warning anyway, oh wise and noble Grasshopper.;)

 Any fans here of the BBC's MY WORD and Frank Muir?

Someday, a recitation of his story about the best laid plans, but not tonight. I hear a tigress on the stairs...  

Texas has lots of lakes, but only one, I told, is 'natural' -- the others are all technically reservoirs, since they are nothing but dammed up rivers.  No salmon down here, and it's easier to boat on a reservoir/lake than on a twisty stream with fallen snags (I've done both).  Texans don't much believe in 'the environment'.  Every Texans 'loves Texas' but from what I can see, it's a lot like a guy who 'loves his wife', but doesn't see any reason not to smack her if it suits him.  Rivers are for throwing stuff in, and it's someone else's problem if it goes downstream.  I suppose dams are good for 'catching' all that stuff before it gets to the Gulf -- but then the fact that folks throw stuff off of boats and litter the beaches means you wouldn't know that.  The fish, fire ants, nutria, people, refineries, styrofoam cups, mosquitoes, birds and so on all seem to coexist nonetheless.  No one much cares about dams here... they are all built.  And if one were to collapse, no one would much care (except for the bass fishermen and the beer-swilling boaters) since a flood caused by a dam break, by a hurricane, or by a heavy spell of rain all look the same.  A flood is a flood.

Doc,

While the last thing I can imagine is to raise a hand to my wife, your post reminds me of one of my favorite Noel Coward quotes:

"Some women should be struck regularly... like gongs!"

Gentlemen, you are stepping off into deep waters here...I expect retractions posthaste with regards to the whole woman-smacking thing. Noel Coward notwithstanding (he was gay anyway), you have yet to experience tigresses such as might be engendered if this continues.

Robert, I'm so glad my offhand remarks stay with you so tenaciously-it's really very gratifying. Unfortunately, I HAVE seen a dead donkey, though one of our common Irish sayings is 'donkey's years', as a reference to extended periods of time, as in 'he's not been near us in donkey's years'.

I'll end with another great quote from Harvey, that pretty much describes my state of mind tonight (all over the map, little bit out of touch with reality from spending the evening on one of our town's frequent wine and appetizer gallery walks)...

I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it. (YESSS!)

Ok, TWO quotes...

I took a course in art last winter. I learnt the difference between a fine oil painting, and a mechanical thing, like a photograph. The photograph shows only the reality. The painting shows not only the reality, but the dream behind it. It's our dreams, doctor, that carry us on. They separate us from the beasts. I wouldn't want to go on living if I thought it was all just eating, and sleeping, and taking my clothes off.

Of course, taking my clothes off is the first thing I do upon arriving home after a difficult day...but that's a topic for another time-Peterman Lite indeed!

Olivia,

In lieu of retraction, I refer you to the section of my last statement that precedes the Coward quote.  And I am well aware of what tigresses I have and have not experienced.

I have little doubt that many of us have seen dead donkeys.  The literal translation of the quote if of little consequence.  It is merely Benjamin the donkey's fancy way of saying "We shall see".  At that combination of patience (which I have always lacked) and skepticism (which I have in spades) is a very healthy way to react to the regime of Napoleon the pig and his cronies.  Of course, their actions were in the name of all animals' benefit in order to rescue them from the horrible yokes that had been quite literally foisted on them up to that point.  Not unlike some other movements we have discussed recently.

As I sign off for the evening, I am left with the mental image of your having arrived home after a difficult day and doffing the aforementioned garments before chastising me about Coward and Orwell.  Somewhere in there, we have managed to bridge the gap between the sexy and the surreal.

If one wishes to cause a woman to resonate pleasantly, gonglike, one should be mindful of the area of contact and thrust applied.

Uh oh, it's getting late...must dash!

Please don't confuse observation and analysis with advocacy.....  Having been on the receiving end of violence (as have many of us) I detest it... but it that said, many people treat other humans, their homes, their vehicles, and their states with the same strange belief that they are 'loving folks' as they destroy that which they claim to love.... My momma stripped all the bull away for me when I was a little kid: 'Actions speak louder than words!'  AMEN!