The ancient Greek religion had no concept of "guilt" either. When Helen ran off with Paris there was no sense of guilt...when Menelaus retrieved her from Troy there was no apparent punishment for her "crime". She was not killed as retribution for all the deaths she caused in the 10 year Trojan War.  The Greeks seemed to have a belief that the Gods would punish a human for going to extremes (not practising Greek virtues) or for defying the Gods. Even then another God might redeem the person. But there was no guilt.  Odysseus had no guilt about living in a sexual relationship with Calypso for 6 years while on his way home to his beloved wife Pennelope.

I think too much is made of guilt. Taking responsibility for your shortcomings and correcting them is the best approach..

Which brings up another issue: forgiveness.  I'm not sure anymore that I believe in "forgiveness". What is there to forgive? There are so many causes of bad behavior and misconduct (genetics, learned behavior, poor judgement), that I see little reason to forgive. If a person knows they're doing wrong and can accept responsibility, then a response or a reaction from us is not required. If the other can't take responsibility then there's nothing to forgive. it won't help them anyway.

A lot of the problems we suffer come from over-reaction to events. There's no need for a mature person to over-react. I believe either in ignoring the person or in being pro-active in response if it will assist them. (and they want help). What hurts us is our opinion about things. Deal with the facts not your opinion.  (I know, it's difficult, and many times impossible to do).

I'm reminded of a story told about Takuan, the 16th century Japanese Zen monk, who when accused of being the father of a woman's child said "Is that so?" A year later, the woman told Takuan she had lied, he was not the father.  His response? He said "Is that so?" He knew he was not the father from the day of the accustion. What a great way to respond to attacks on your character. 

No guilt, no forgiveness, no opinion, no defense, just a simple coment: "Is that so?"

An interesting and fascinating book to read and study is "The Eight Pillars of Greek Wisdom" by Stephen Bertman. I highly recommend it for its philosophy of life and living. You can buy it at Barnes & Noble and Amazon Books.

Funny Peterman ....... You don't look Jewish .......

I'll be the first to say it: One of my guilty pleasures is spending a lot of time right here.

There is no greater sanctity in this world than that of the private conscience.  Your own contract with yourself, if properly strengthened throughout your life, will be the most effective means to keep your conduct on the up and up.

The simple question of guilt or the lack thereof is part of the larger issue of identity.  Do you want to be the kind of person who helps little old ladies across the street or would you rather kick Tiny Tim's crutch out from under him.  Who do you want to see looking back at your from the mirror.

Like most two-sided coins, guilt balances properly with pride (in the best sense).  Once we establish our ability to look in the mirror without wishing to break the glass, to sleep at night, and to hold our heads high, a sense of pride takes over and permits us to hold our heads even higher.

Without guilt there would have been no "East of Eden" or "Crime and Punishment." Both based on the themes of today's subject. Guilty pleasures? I've seen "Clueless" over 50 times. But don't tell anyone.

P. S. May I take the puppy home!?!

I cope with guilt by spending a night with Ben & Jerry. Or shopping.

My guilty pleasure is guilt. Really. I grew up in church three times a week. Never broke the rules, at least never intentionally. And even when they were broken accidently, like falling off a neighbors' garden wall while trying to see into a robin's nest, and breaking their light, I was made to feel shame and guilt. 

And then I let it all go. I went to Costco and bought huge vats of guilt, brought it home, poured it all out on my bed, and rolled around in it until my fingers were all pruny.

And can I just say that I'm a 'better' person, in that I like myself more and so do others, because I've embraced guilt. It's not that I don't feel it or let it guide me, it's that it doesn't paralize me. I don't run from it. I just look at it, size up the situation, and make a sensible decision.

I now have a pet theory that guilt and judgmental-ness are a zero sum game. This is all very Lewis. I'm stealing. No guilt about it either. For any science heads, it makes me think of potential and  kinetic energy. It's a closed set; potential energy being pure piety and judgment and kinetic energy being guilt.  When I was controlled by guilt and always stayed within the lines, I was so bloody judgmental. Now, I have Grace, and I give it, willingly and often.  I had to choose between living with guilt or judgement, and I chose the former. He's much nicer. He eats ice cream with me at all hours of the night and watches trash movies with foul language.

I will say this. I no longer shop for guilt in large vats at Costco. That's just hedonistic and silly. Now, I hunt through specialty shops and have acquired a very discriminating palette. Like buying this:

http://jpeterman.com/product~cat~110210~sku~WAC%203101.asp

in lieu of paying my student loans. Love it. . .

Happy Thursday, all. 

For most of my life I thought of love as a prison. A place I didn't want to be. But not too long ago I made a decision to be footloose and fancy free. Then she came and I was so tempted to gamble on love just one time. I never thought I would get caught, it seemed like the perfect crime. Then she left me defenseless, I only had one plea. She locked me away inside of her love and threw away the key. I'm guilty of love in the first degree.

Love the photo.

By the way, we therapists get the big bucks for cleaning up messes (most times BIG messes). Like a fly fisherman who has just transformed 50 feet of floating line into a four pound tight knotted ball, people bring us near insoluable problems they've spent years creating and expect us to fix it in a 50 minute clinical hour. Like the Creator, we work at bringing order out of chaos.

For sixty bucks an hour, it's a pretty good deal! 

Drdgscott,

Sixty bucks and hour? I'm so getting ripped off. 

And I agree with you; I don't envy my doc's job. I'm a mess! 

What's wrong with gilt...little chocolate coins covered in shining, gold-like wrappers of joy,luff it!  And gilding the lilly...I mean lilies are great but who doesn't like a little extra gleam on their flower arrangements.

Oops, now I feel guilty that my lysdexia has made me look like such a fool.  Off to wallow for now...

Hey, hold the phone a minute!  How did Peterman know my dog's name is Molly?  Curiouser and curiouser.

Miserable to live with it, probably wouldn't be allowed to live without it.

I think shall take a long, pleasant "guilt trip" to yesterday's deserted island with of all the extra books I stowed away with my sun screen.

To ExPat:

I would submit that Odysseus's lack of guilt for his dalliances is because Penelope is a forgiving character. What's needed is a distinction between dynamics-driven guilt and solipsistic guilt. And, I don't care what they say I can't live in a world without forgiveness.

And what is Oedipus Rex about, if not about guilt? 

~ guilt
1. the fact or state of having committed an offense, crime, violation, or wrong, esp. against moral or penal law; culpability: He admitted his guilt. 
2. a feeling of responsibility or remorse for some offense, crime, wrong, etc., whether real or imagined. 
3. conduct involving the commission of such crimes, wrongs, etc.: to live a life of guilt. 

Jaspers - Die Schuldfrage (1946; The Question of German Guilt, 1947)

...Jaspers felt that an acknowledgment of national guilt was a necessary condition for the moral and political rebirth of Germany. In one of his best political works, , he stated that whoever had participated actively in the preparation or execution of war crimes and crimes against humanity was morally guilty.

I proclaimed myself the "Queen of Shame and Blame" a long time ago.  Some people have a tendancy to deny ANYTHNG is their fault...I am just the opposite.  I accept the guilt for yours, mine, and... ours.  Sounds like I need some intense therapy, doesn't it? Some folks call me anal retentive...I prefer the terms organized and responsible.  I try very hard to subscribe to the old cause and effect adage and it can be a good thing. I do learn from my mistakes...I usually take responsiblity for them...justify the wrong, and things work out.  Without sitting on the pity - pot too much longer, I do seem to have more than my fair share of the puppy dog eyes!  BUT...I don't look at it as necessarily a negative thing.  Feeling guilt, like many other emotions can have both positive and negative consequences.  My glass is half full!        

Mark Swaim,

Stunning—really. Your post made me look back at your other posts for more, which led me to find three 'secret notes' from three dear friends.

DPR, Olivia and Capt Neptune,

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I apologize for that wine-induced vent. I am always chin-up. I get that from my grandmother (the talented beer-pouring, Catholic-heart-breaking girl). Will be fine. Always. This site has been such a surprising part of why I know that is true. Really.

Amazing people here.

Now, back to guilty pleasure. . .just ate fried chicken for lunch. Delicious. . . 

"It is better to risk saving a guilty man than to condemn an innocent one." ~ Voltaire

Without guilt, one has no conscience.  Without conscience, one has bedlam.

Guilty Pleasure # 7,985,328 - A

With the kitchen cloaked in darkness except for the illumination provided by the light iof the open refrigerator door, tilting your head back and ingesting whipped cream straight from a pressurized canister until your cheeks are filled to 110% capacity..... and then doing it again before hiding the can behind the skim milk.

PeterLake,

I'm laughing out loud, right now. Funny man.

Be careful, it's hard to get that stuff out of your hair, and clothes. . . 

missive,

practice, practice, practice ......

Guilt can serve a useful purpose - helping us think about our mistakes, and keeping us from repeating them again.

Guilt is a healthy response, when we have done something that violates our consciences.  That doesn't mean that we have to stew in it for the rest of our lives.  Live & learn! 

Guilt ~ I didn't think I had it ~ I didn't think I beleived in it but than I started working in broadcating & have come to the conclusion that even though I did not mean to It's ALL MY FAULT.  The President decides to speak during the Price is Right, The CW cancelling Veronica Mars, Football games running past 3 hours, The Anchors misprouncing a name, the concert Voucher not good for the Friday night show just the Saturday night one...

I accept ~ it's all MY FAULT. I think I spend more time in my day saying "I'm sorry" to complete strangers than actually getting something productive done.  

Alas though there is (Dare I say it?) HOPE (yes all in capitols) ~  I no longer take it personally.  It has helped, I have quit apologizing for other mistakes & feelings it really has helped my stress levels here at work...  

I am LOVING Expats story about the Monk saying is that so. Because right now in my life it is in a state of "IS THAT SO"..... What a Great Mantra to begin using in helping you to let go & be yourself.... So Simple yet so wordly...   

Missive ~ I also LOVE the Film French Kiss... Let's Buzz it right down the middle..... Also put that shawl on my Christmas list...

DPR ~ Watched Clueless 2 last nite ~ had to I couldn't believe they cut out the scene when the stoner gives up his "equipment" (Best scene inthe film, "Maybe Housewares")

LaDonna ~ can we share custody of the puppy?

As a bit of a social experiment, I wnet out and had a burger and fries for lunch to see if ingesting said junk food would lead to feelings of guilt, thereby bringing about a desire to change my eating habits. 

Um....not so much. Even found some fun-sized candy to have as dessert.

PeterLake,

Yes, sir. Will do. Total rookie, apparently. Need lessons from Satchmo.

Rings90,

OH MY GOD, I love that movie! My sisters and I can recite the whole thing. My most quoted lines:

"We're going down, we're going down, we're going down. . ."

"Beautiful, gorgeous, wish you were here . . ."

"When people say they're happy, it makes my ass twitch."

Thank you for taking me 'there' today! Fun. . .

DPR! Love Clueless. Love all Austen and all Austen remakes. Also, the Shakespeare remakes. Ten Things I Hate About You. Love it.

Again, I have waited too long to absorb all that has gone before. But consider this: If something makes you feel guilty ( or just bad) isn't one solution to stop doing it?  Is that not a good thng- to modify your behavior in order to avoid unpleasant consequences? Isn't that what we call education? 

I have experience of people who never see anything as their fault. The English language and modern thought  allow for all manner of ways of describing things in such a way as to deflect blame, but  the loss seems to be that the person never outgrows acting in a way that clearly causes bad results- and frequently other ones than guilt.

If guilt is not a tool for learning from one's mistakes, what is?

Perhaps we have moved the standard too far from what really matters- not sleaze TV and junk food, surely- so that "guilty" is just one more watered down concept- like calling a chocolate cake "sinful".  Granted, fiddling while Rome burns is not good and sitting idle while others suffer isn't either, but eating chocolate or fried food or watching or reading junk is not what we should worry about. We should worry about failing to help each other, failing to help ourselves, failing to take advantage of our abilities, failing to delight in our good fortune, failing to savor the gift of each day.

Feel guilty about THOSE things. and then stop doing them.

To: Mark Swaim,

Oedipus should have understood the Oracle's message. I wonder if his self-inflicted blindness was the result of guilt (remorse) or anger towards himself for being "bind" to the Oracle's warnings.

Thanks for making me think about Oedipus' situation.  

Willie Trask,

When I put my serious glasses back on and take off the ones with the bulging eyes and fake mustache that I was wearing earlier when I posted; I must say I agree with what you have said.

Guilt certainly does have a broad spectrum beginning with inconsequential guilty pleasures and ending with malevolent acts against humanity or worse.

Most of us will draw a line in the sand along that spectrum where the guilt is strong enough that we recognize it and take the steps needed to stop that behavior. The really scary ones don't have any lines in the sand; ever, or if they did, they were blown away a long time ago.

Your last paragraph has got me wondering if guilt and failure are one side of the same coin or the same side of different coins. Maybe it just doesn't matter but it got me thinking about it none-the-less.

Thank you for evoking some hopefully constructive thoughts from me today.  Any illumination is gratefully accepted.

OK,. . .  now I've got to put the other glasses back on because your post made me think of that old doctor joke where the patient walks in, drops his pants and says....

Hey did, would you take a look at this?

And the doctor replies; Yes, but not for long. And then

The Patient says, "But doctor, it really hurts a lot when I do this!

And as we all know..... the doctor says "So stop doing that"

Be well, Do good

To: PeterLake,

Guilt is a good starting point for rehabilitation.  I'm not worried about guilt in others so much as I worry about those who feel no guilt...or remorse....like psychopaths and sociopaths and terorists.

There are business people, like the ones who ran Enron, for whom guilt is an afterthought when the sentence was being handed down. They had no sense of guilt when they committed their financial crimes. How convenient to feel guilt when the handcuffs are on. Too bad for the victims they found 'Jesus' after the deed was done... 

Arrogance and its consequences (intended or not) would make an intersting topic.

Guilty pleasures...guilty pleasures...hmm...  Ok, here goes:

Peanut Butter

Project Runway

The 80s

Vino

Hagen Daz Mango Ice Cream

Toxic by Britney Spears

Alone Time

Celebrity Gossip

Regular People Gossip

Primping

Shoes

Shoes

More Shoes

Self-Help Books

"Mental Health" Days

Pseudo-Intellectualism

Cursing

Cute Animal Videos on YouTube

Feminism

Anti-Feminism

Mani/Pedi's

Bargain Hunting

MySpace

Agnosticism

...and on and on and on...

PeterLake and Trask,

I will take my funny glasses off for a moment, too.

Earlier I said my guilty pleasure is guilt. And that's because, whether you believe in nature OR nurture, like MackDaddy, I spent years swimming in a floating along with guilt. The type of girl who got her foot stepped on and then apologized to the 'stepper.'

I think you just have to know yourself. I learned that my guilt was something I hid behind. It made me weak. For a few years, I backlashed and got in the faces of those who 'stepped' on me. And then I found a good middle ground. 

The biggest breakthrough I've made is not letting people use guilt to steer me. I only accept internal guilt, not external. It has to come from me. I trust my gut. If I feel the passive aggressive fingers of external guilt wrapping themselves around me and pulling in a direction, I just brush them away and make my own decision. Calmly. Not like a ping pong ball bouncing wherever the world's current position on my actions stands at the moment. It was making me crazy. Crazy, I tell you.

Now, back to the funny glasses, too. . .

Another fantastic guilty pleasure—jug wine. Love it. Love taking it to parties where jugs of wine are so not appropriate. I think it goes back that 'not letting people guilt me' thing. I just stand there in my cocktail attire with one finger in the ring-shaped handle and hold in the air in front of the hostess until she unscrunches her face and takes it, resistantly. Oh, yeah, Miss Ive knows how to 'bring the party.' Giggling. Has to something horrible like white zinfindel, too. Only the pink stuff rocks a party. 

Jilly Bean ~ Project Runway is one of my Guilty Pleasures also, Although last nites episode ticked me off as Koto's Idea was a rip off of this idea that has been in the mainstream market place for at least 2 years now ~  http://www.seatbeltbags.com/bazibr.html  The praise she got for it annoyed me becuaae it truely was not an original idea....

Missive ~ I thought the "all Pruny in it" statement was meant to reference Franch Kiss.

rings90

It was a reference to French Kiss. Did you get my other post about how much I love that movie?! Love it.

JillyBean,

Love that you said

Feminism and Anti-feminism. . .too great. 

I got enough guilt.  Original sin, slavery, NativeAmericans, the homeless, female wage disparagy, Darfur, and now you want me to take on global warming?  Sorry.  My shoulders are too bent over.  No more room.  No more guilt.  BUT... I do understand your concerns now that I am educated to the topic.  And I will try to act responsibly and do my part to lessen my carbon footprint.  But not out of guilt!  Out of social responsibility!  It seems that our Christian cultural background wants us to find motivation in everything we do through guilt.  No!  I have had enough!  I will act on good moral and ethical values, but not motivated by guilt.  Sorry..

However... I would LOVE a good everything-on-it pizza tonight... but no.  Can't un-do the hard workout I did today.  I would feel too... guilty.

To rings90,

No problem, I'll share custody of the puppy!

Heiress,

clearly I should have read your post  before I took up my keyboard. I was mostly echoing you and you said it faster.  

MissIve,

I am glad you worked past your guilt.

 So I guess it doesn't matter to you any more that you drive another nail into Jesus' hands every time you unscrew the cap on that jug.   All of His suffering could be alleviated if you would just learn to use a corkscrew, right?

In all seriousness, what higher calling can some of us hope to aspire to than to become a guilty pleasure ourselves?  Well, other than being a NOT guilty pleasure, of course...

Wishing all and sundry complete abundance and the redemptive knowledge that almost anything can be a learning experience. And maybe a few snack crackers...

wt 

Thank you, Missive...

Rings90: I see what you mean about Koto's design. Also, man I was glad to see that guy Keith booted off. His over-inflated view of himself really blew up in his face.

...aaaaaand I'll just go ahead and add schaudenfreuda to my list of guilty pleasures.

...oh and the show Wipeout. Schaudenfreuda at its funniest.

Hey PeterLake,

If you like the whipped cream with the door open thing, you might enjoy THE TAO OF STEVE, which is a fun movie about one man's quest to perfect The Method. Along the way, he has some fun with the whipped cream and discusses it with his dog. But all of his calculalions are blown away, of course, when he falls in love.  He explains to his student that STEVE is the name of all that is cool in our culture: Steve McQueen, Steve McGarret, etc.

(by the way, I quoted in an earlier post from SOUTHERN CULTURE ON THE SKIDS:  

Oh ye pharaohs let us walk, through this barren desert, in search of truth and maybe a few snack crackers.  )

Willy Trask,

Thanks, sounds like my kind of flick!

Not sure why everyone is applying the Clueless comment to me.  It was Dutchman's guilty pleasure but I like the movie well enough.  I definitely agree with Missive about Ten Things I Hate About You which I like better than the original Taming of the Shrew.  But what's with all this badmouthing of White Zinfandel?

I don't care for Project Runway because it is primarily about fashion.  And fashion, as we Petermanites know, is the mortal enemy of style.

Willie Trask,

I definitely agree with your notion that guilt is applied to too many things that are not properly issues of guilt.  Eating junk food might make me feel stupid but it is hardly worthy of guilt as if it were a moral matter.

Mmmmm.... seems to me that one has to have an ethical criterion or criteria in order to judge one's behavior and conclude one is 'guilty' (using the word in an objective sense).  The related concept of 'forgiveness' is more interesting, in my opinion.  The Christian concept considers 'sin' as an offense against either God or one's fellow man (and sometimes against 'the natural order') -- but it has the idea that the supreme entity can 'erase' guilt.  Of course the traditional teaching is that He won't wash you clean unless the 'guilty' person is sorry (whatever that means), asks for forgiveness, does penance (again, a vague thing), and has, at least at the moment of forgiveness a firm intention not to relapse.  This is the traditional Christian concept.  Frankly, though I long ago stopped being a Catholic and consider myself essentially outside any specific religion, I like the Jewish idea of forgiveness, which adds a really neat twist: one must be forgiven by the person one 'screwed over' or God won't ratify the deal.  (So much for the facile Christian walking away from the mess he/she has created with a toss of the head and the trite comment, 'Oh, God has forgiven me!).  I'd like to hear some of the folks from a traditional Presbyterian background comment and describe what it's like to be born, live and die in a perpetual state of alienation from God, guilty as hell (heh, heh) and with absolutely no way to get out.  That must indeed make life on earth a lifelong journey in Hell.

The word guilt also describes an EMOTION.  Those raised (as I was) in a 'certain environment' know the feeling (note the word!) that they have done something wrong, but can't quite figure out what it is.  It's a free-floating emotion that sweeps over one like a dark cloud, lingers a bit, and then blows away.  Over the years I've decided it is rooted in fear -- vague anxieties originating deep inside the human brain.  I suspect once rooted it lives on (much as the horrors of war hang on the minds of combat veterans long after they have returned to their 'old world').  Fortunately, free-floating guilt is relatively easily contained and vanquished by the oldest medicine in the world: doing good.  More specifically, telling a joke, listening intently to a child with something to say, nodding to an old person with no friends (even if he/she is making little sense), and not snapping back to some idiot who deserves a sharp rejoinder.  Trying to make someone's life just a tiny bit happier is a sure way to get one's mind off one's own emotions and to focus the mind where it can actually do something positive, instead of stewing in a fetid sea of self-torture and pain.

Geez, I do get verbose, don't I ! :-)

DPR,

Sorry about the Clueless mix-up. . .

White Zinfandel? Really? You? Laughing. I DO not discriminate. Sometimes I order the 'pink stuff' just for shock value. No. I don't. I can't lie to you about that. I really hate it.

Trask,

At first I thought you were serious about the screw-top crucifixion. Freaked me out. Then I got it. Sorry. I'm sober. Very funny.

Now for guilty pleasure number bazillion. . .

When Harry Met Sally and cookies in bed. Night, friends.

Missive,

Shock value?  I don't understand.  Where is the shock in someone's taste in wine?  If you hate it, don't drink it.  If you like it, DO drink it.  Let's not get all Paul Giamatti about this.  Wine is like chocolate.  Hershey isn't Cluizel but it's perfectly good by its own standards.  White Zinfandel is the Hershey of wine.

If you come to New York, I promise to take you to Katz's Deli, the setting of When Harry Met Sally's climactic scene.  What she WAS having was pastrami on rye with a side of potato salad.

Chips Ahoy and a cold glass of milk.

Dunk cookie until nano seconds before the bottom half is ready to seperate and fall to the bottom of the glass.  It loses some texture down there.

In one smooth but swif motion, and withoput a hint of a drip of milk, insert whole into mouth.

Repeat above step frequently, develop a good cadence.

Leave at least 2.5 cookies and miscellaneous breakage in bag.  Neatly fold and put away.

This way you can avoid the guilt of eating a whole bag.  Wash, dry, and put away the glass so there is no chance of cookies and milk flashback the following morning.

Probably should do a sit-up. Optional of course.

You are right again, PeterLake.  I find it useful to always ALWAYS share one chip or cookie or hot tamale  or whatever is in the bag. Then, later on, you can piously remember that you didn't eat the whole bag.

Do you suppose that guilt may be related to awe- in that unnecessary guilt is a little like unjustified awe? I am reminded of yet another movie- SIX DEGREES OF SEPARATION, when Stockard Channing is up on the scaffolding in the Sistine Chapel and the old worker tells her "Go ahead- touch it-it's just a ceiling."

 And DPR is again right as well, MissIve, Wine is not to be held in too much awe, either.  Remember where it ends up.   There are ectually some pretty hip DRY rose's out there and they are great fun to drink it while confusing all of those  whine snobs, cork suckers, etc.

You may thank Frank McCourt for the nails comment, or at least his mother, supposedly.

And back at last to guilt and the Carbon Footprint. Has anyone else seen or heard you-know-which car referred to as a "Prious"?  

sorry, that was supposed to read "swift motion and without a hint of a drip of milk".  I had a cookie in my hand while typing and got some milk in my eye.

DPR,

Are you old enough to remember "Boone's Farm" apple wine??  It was good on pancakes too.

On break between bath and movie/cookie binge.

DPR,

Um, okay, I'll come to NYC and you may take me to the deli, but we are NOT drinking merlot. And you had better NOT be chewing gum.

I hope you know that I am seriously not a wine snob; I can be a fabulous low-brower in any arena. Trust me. My entire father's side (the non WASP's) are terrificly Scotch-Irish. They have taught me to make my own wine coolers (Boone's Farm and Sprite) and how to open the box of wine in order to twist and squeeze the bag of its entire contents. Trust me. I can do the pink stuff—in spades.

Too fun.

PeterLake,

I'm so bringing the milk to the party tonight now, too. Will work on cadence. Will probably lose track while laughing along with movie. Will probably spill milk and get kicked out of bed. Will absolutely blame you.

LOVED this bit: "Wash, dry, and put away the glass so there is no chance of cookies and milk flashback the following morning."

You are too much. Really.

ALL OF YOU GUYS AND GALS HAVE THOROUGHLY ENTERTAINED ME THIS ENTIRE DAY.  ALL THE TALK OF COOKIES AND MILK ,WINE, MOVIES, ETC...  I THINK I WAS WAY TOO LITERAL IN MY FIRST POST.  I WAS REFERRING TO DEEP SEEDED GUILT LIKE NOT CALLING MY MAMA EVERYDAY, NOT GOING TO CHURCH EVERY SUNDAY, NOT CONTRIBUTING TO CHARITIES WHEN I SHOULD, NOT NOT NOT...OR GIVING IN TO MY GRANDCHILDRENS WANTS, SPENDING TOO MUCH TIME ON PETERMAN'S EYE AND NOT ENOUGH TIME WITH MY HUSBAND, USING A BUBBLE BATH AS AN EXCUSE TO EXPERIENCE A LIITLE QUIET TIME.  WAY TOO DEEP.  I HAVE GUILTY PLEASURES TOO.  A FEW I WON'T GIVE UP NO MATTER HOW GUILTY I FEEL: STARBUCKS VENTI SKINNY LATTES EVERY AM, MANICURES AND PEDICURES, HGTV AND THE FOOD NETWORK, BONEFISH GRILL MARGARITA'S AND COSMO.  MISSIVE: I HAVE A WONDERFUL LOCAL WINERY DOWN THE ROAD FROM ME CALLED CHRISMAN'S.  MY BUDDIES AND I LIKE TO GO OVER THERE ONCE A WEEK (HMM..HMM) FOR WINE TASTINGS.  WE GET TO TRY 3 OR 4 DIFFERENT WINES AND HAVE DESSERT.  NOW THAT'S A GUILTY PLEASURE!!! I  FEEL LIKE I SHOULD BE COOKING DINNER, DOING LAUNDRY, TAKING MY MOM OUT, OR BABYSITTING INSTEAD.  THANKS FOR LETTING ME KNOW IT'S OK TO INDULGE EVERY ONCE IN AWHILE.  OH AND THANKS FOR THE FREE THERAPY...OOPS I MEAN ENTERTAINMENT!

Miss Ive:

Thanks for the bon mots above. From your postings, I always get the sense that I could have a 24-hour conversation with you (guilt-free) with no looming boredom.

WT:

I think the car in question is the Prius.

I always klang-associate the name with priapism, pious, prions (the particle that causes mad cow disease), priory, and p---k. Thus I doubt I'll ever own one. And anyway, my Porsche is my uber-guiltiest of pleasures. 

Missive,

No, you are obviously not a wine snob and I would not have mistaken you for such.  But I truly cannot fathom why anyone would order any drink for any reason other than because THEY LIKE IT!  (unless, of course, it is to try something new for the first time.)

For the record, I am not a fan of gum.  While Merlot is not my favorite, I have learned that -- unlike people -- not all Merlot is created equal.  On the other hand, I am the anti-Will Rogers of Chardonnay; I have never met one that I liked.  I have yet to be exposed to the joys of Boone's Farm.

I'm one of those kids who never outgrew his sweet tooth.  As an adult, that has applied to my taste in booze.  I like sweet everything; port, sherry, Southern Comfort, Amaretto, Asti, fruity liqueurs, etc.  I appreciate wine's nuances as much as the next drinker but, at the end of the day, I'm pretty much like Thomas Hayden Church.  After Giamatti waxes rhapsodic on the wine's details, I'm the guy saying "I dunno; tastes pretty good to me."

It is worth noting that, not only do I look like Paul Giamatti, but I was always very much the same kind of actor.  Check out his performance in The Illusionist.  It is precisely the kind of role I would usually be cast in and his delivery of that performance was very similar to many that I have done.

DreadPirateRoberts: On your earlier comment on fashion, I'd like to addend a quote from the ever-quotable Oscar Wilde: "And, after all, what is a fashion? From the artistic point of view, it is usually a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months."

Oscar Wilde is my guilty pleasure. Even though he courted young boys, what he said and wrote is among the most brilliant stuff ever. And as a writer, that's what matters to me.

Sorry for missing all this good stuff until late, such a busy day I couldn't even visit with my faves.

I grew up being fed guilt with my mother's milk, my daily bread, and as a result, I took the blame and the load for everyone, tried to make it all right when anyone I loved had a problem, tried to please everyone, and pleased no one. That led to even more guilt, since I couldn't, COULDN'T no matter what, make all right for all. There's more, and I could whine all night, but it wouldn't help-not me, not anyone, so I had to let it go and try to please someone who'd been neglected all my life, me. and when I did that, strange and wonderful things happened, because I felt better, I was happier, and those people reacted more positively to my happiness than they ever had done before. What an odd and contrary world it is.

Elwood P. Dowd said it well: Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this world, Elwood, you must be" - she always called me Elwood - "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant." Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.

And so I do...I think of Elwood often, such a lovely man, such a wonderful sweet movie. It helps.

Missy, never apologize for baring your soul-in vino veritas, ma tres chere amie...and viva box wine! The first place I had wine in a box? Orleans, France, where I went with a friend in his Peugeot estate to collect the family's wine for the winter. It required the barrowing of a plastic bladder throught the trees to a metal building, where we tasted red, white, and a lovely dry rose' from stainless steel vats. He decided upon the rose', and the vintner filled the 40-litre bladder till it was tight as a big water balloon, with a hose and handle that closely resembled a gasoline pump filler, only very clean stainless steel. We loaded it into the voiture, and took it back home, then washed old bottles, filled and corked them and stored them in the gypsum cave below stairs. For my help, he bought me a 5 litre box of lovely local red which my traveling buddies sucked dry in no time. So much for French wine snobbery (they aren't).

Peter, Peter-you forgot an important step, dear. Before the cream suck one must shoot Hershey's chocolate syrup straight from the can or squeeze bottle, a long dark sweet stream that leaves you gasping and sick and guilty and euphoric. Only then do you fizz your cheeks full of nitrous oxide-jazzed whipping cream, hide the evidence, and creep away. All must be done ONLY by the light of the fridge. It's a rule...

My first wine puke was Boone's Farm Strawberry Hill, and as far as the trouble I got up to later that night, not going there...

The One at the Desk,

Heiress' earlier comment of "Live and Learn" or, as some people say, "Chalk it up to experience" makes me think of another a propos quote from Oscar Wilde:

"Experience is the name we give to our mistakes."

As for fashion, it is quite simple:  Fashion is dictated from the outside and changes with every season and every issue of Vogue.  Style is personal, it is your own and comes from within you... and it lasts forever.

I adore style.  I despise fashion.

Lordy, I can't get caught up!

Tiberius, the fantods are a reference to a sort of nervous fit, frequently used by one of my favorite writers, Edward Gorey.

The Italian was "I salute a life lived with brio!"

I love thge smell of old books, and meditative classical music, and good friends' conversation. That reminds me of an early line in "The Princess Bride": When I was your age, television was called BOOKS. Also, books-the original laptop (apocryphal)

As I've said before, reading back has its rewards, as Missy and I know...we're constantly updating, tweaking, thinking, sneaking, prinking, peeking, and HELP! I'm rhyming and I CAN'T STOP!! Obviously it's time to retire...

DPR, that is so dead on. I never worry about style, I just wear what I like, and my style comes from all ages, although I'm partial to the '40s (cf Ilsa Lund). Fashion is just seasonal manipulation to get your money.

I was anxious to get the Aristotelian view on guilt that you linked to, Peterman, but when I arrived at the target site another example of guilt came to mind.  The site you cited, termpapersmonthly, makes money by luring students into plagiarism.  (Oh, of course there are the usual disclaimers about never handing one of their papers in, but come on.)  Somehow the mere offer of this sort of temptation-- for profit-- bothers me.  What if in a weak moment (or a time crunch) a student hands in one of these things, gets caught, and faces expulsion?  Of course s/he SHOULD have known better, but the same can be said for anyone that buys contraband.  Is that enough of an exculpation to give these operators a pass?  Is this very different from the schoolyard drug pusher? 

Furthermore, what of those who provide their work to this operation, knowing full well what its eventual usage is likely to be?

My vanity alone would have kept me from selling my term papers, I think.  (I hope so, anyway.)  Still and all, three weeks of eating ramen noodles could certainly muddle a person's moral perspective! All those carbs and fat and not a hint of protein...

Thank goodness the worst thing I have to feel guilty about is my car, which unfortunately has a definite drinking problem.

Olivia,

Yes, must use chocolate.  May have to wash it down with a chocolate soda. . . . a little bit of guilt doesn't stand a chance against such a late-night raid.

Chocolate soda?  Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.  Thats up there with chocolate covered ants in the places that chocolate should never go category.

Olivia!

You said 'Strawberry Hill!' Ahhh. . .so many memories.

Mark Swaim,

Any time you have a clear 24 hours, let me know. Ditto, man.

DPR,

I adored Thomas Hayden Church's honesty. My earliest post on the jug wine was referring to messing with the 'we are NOT drinking MERLOT' types of people. BTW, love the super-Tuscan varieties of Merlot. They rock. Spiiiiicccccyyyy. . .

We only disagree on the 'sweet' mixed with 'booze.' Can NOT do it. The sweetest I go is a gimlet. Unfortunately for the people around me, I drink everything straight, and from the bottle. Sweet slows me down. Smiling.

Do love some cookies, though. . . 

God, don't get me started on wine. I used to be a wine consultant, my crusade to diminish the pretensions and bullshit so common in tasting. I love the Thurber cartoon (It's a naive domestic Burgundy without any breeding, but I think you'll be amused by its presumption), it's so funny cos some people actually TALK that way! I always loved finding good cheap wines by new little upstart wineries, some were SO GOOD, and under ten bucks a bottle.

The big Italians, OMG-the Sangiovese in all her varieties (Brunellos, Sassicaia etc.), Barberas, Montepulciano, and on and on. Dee-lish! Chewy!

The Australians give good box...wine. They have a low tolerance for bad wine in any container, so you can almost always go Aussie with confidence.

I used to astonish the guys with my preference for Irish whiskey, neat, H2O on the side. Strong waters indeed.

Then there's mojitos and cosmos, great in small doses.

Gotta stop, getting thirsty.